what are your thoughts on the ecy stack??

[ssal]

well recently i was looking into those fat burner pills. i been reading up on some of the ones out on the market. i tried both the orignal and ephedra free supplements. i didnt like the ephedra free supplements because it did nothing. well this was back when they just banned ephedra. so well i started to work out again to lose pounds and fat. so i wanted to supplement my workouts. i came across something called a ecy stack. well i thought it looked very promising. but yeah what are your thoughts on the ecy stack?? though i might change the recipe to ecg= ephedra caffine and green tea depending how i like the ecy stack.

o btw ecy stands for ephedrine HCL, yohimbine HCL and caffeine for those of you who dont know.

[Leo]

i think the Y part it too powerfull in combination with EC. I'd stick with just EC it works very well. This is IMO of course. Are you completley new to ephedrine?

[ssal]

no, i dont consider myself completely new to it. i used ephedrine before the ban. i read up alot on it, before even trying it the first time. i got some good results from it plus some exercise and a decent diet.

[steve]

those 3 things will give you a massive heart attack

[KOU In3]

The 'gold standard' is normally the ECA stack (aspirin). In all honesty though I think way too many people put too much emphasis on their supplements.

Nutrition ---> 60%
Workouts ---> 35%
Supplements ---> 5%

Yes it will help but almost everyone is leaving more on the table on their nutrition than they pick up in their supplementing.

Might want to note that almost everyone experiences a massive decrease in energy levels when coming off a period on a stack like that. Your body gets so used to all the stimulants over a period of weeks that operating without it makes you seriously drag for a couple of weeks.

[ssal]

well nutrition and working out is on the top of my list. thats how i lost it last time then supplement it with some ephedra last time. i changed my diet the most to lose the weight. for example i would rarely go out to eat at a fast food place and i also used good oils to cook ie grape seed oil and olive oil. when i did use the ephedra i used it every other day and used it one month and stopped for a month and idi it again.

[Leo]

You should just stick with EC without A (A is useless anyway) or Y. I tried it with G and I didn't personally notice much difference. As far as energy loss when comming off it I don't notice it. Probably because i don use for more then a month straight.

Just remember not to go overboard with dosages and ease into your cycle.

[Leo]

Originally Posted by KOU In3

The 'gold standard' is normally the ECA stack (aspirin). In all honesty though I think way too many people put too much emphasis on their supplements.

Nutrition ---> 60%
Workouts ---> 35%
Supplements ---> 5%

Yes it will help but almost everyone is leaving more on the table on their nutrition than they pick up in their supplementing.

Might want to note that almost everyone experiences a massive decrease in energy levels when coming off a period on a stack like that. Your body gets so used to all the stimulants over a period of weeks that operating without it makes you seriously drag for a couple of weeks.

I totally agree with you on the supplementation. I see people spending money on supps and their diet sucks balls (or they keep getting drunk all the time). Diet is the most important thing.

[haunter]

Originally Posted by KOU In3

The 'gold standard' is normally the ECA stack (aspirin). In all honesty though I think way too many people put too much emphasis on their supplements.

Nutrition ---> 60%
Workouts ---> 35%
Supplements ---> 5%

Yes it will help but almost everyone is leaving more on the table on their nutrition than they pick up in their supplementing.

Might want to note that almost everyone experiences a massive decrease in energy levels when coming off a period on a stack like that. Your body gets so used to all the stimulants over a period of weeks that operating without it makes you seriously drag for a couple of weeks.

I agree to a point Travis, but I simply cannot put on weight while lifting without supplementing my protein via powders, and using the occasional energy enhancer to get over the occasional hump in my workouts.

[KOU In3]

Originally Posted by haunter

I agree to a point Travis, but I simply cannot put on weight while lifting without supplementing my protein via powders,

Putting on weight is a simple matter of calories in being greater than calories out. There's no magic in a protein powder. In general, you'll actually have better results getting the calories from whole food rather than from a shake.

If you can't put on weight while lifting it is simply a matter of being too lazy with your nutrition. Keep adding 500 cals per day until you do gain and you will in fact gain weight. Most people simply aren't consistent enough over time. They teeter from huge caloric excess one day to deficits the next. I can't tell you how many people constantly relive their giant meals but fail to consistently eat six clean meals a day for months on end.

As for the occasional energy enhancer, I still think it comes down to a matter of motivation and laziness. Sure they can help but I seriously doubt your workouts are so 'to the limit' strenuous that they require a stimulant to make it through them.

Supplements can provide a small measure of help but people who think they can't make progress without them are doing something wrong either in the gym or in the kitchen.
.

[haunter]

dude, I was eating as much as I could till I was going to yak and crammed food in all day. There was nothing wrong with my nutrition either, you are jumping to ALOT of assumptions purely to fit your point of view. You can only eat so much a day, esp when trying to fit in 180 grams of protein a day, the only way I could get the protein was with the shakes.

But hey, I was going to class and working 2 jobs 6 days a week, so I guess my real deficit was in my ability to have time to manage it all maybe.

I needed a stimulant becuase trying to lift 4 times a week while working 30 hours and going to class was killing me, I didnt have the energy to push out a real strenuous workout that I was happy with, when I was on creatine I had no energy problems at all, and actually was able to easily up my workouts to 5 a week and working out even harder than I was before.

When it comes down to it, everyone is different with what helps.

Hell, my theory on protein loading went completely against my old employers suggestions(and they were a health/workout store). Of course, I spoke with an ex ATP Tour player and a pro soccer trainer that used to work for the Chicago Fire and the US National team and they agree'd with me.

I dont know how you could ever load a good 30% of your needed protein intake before a workout to make it available, when you aren't using a powder, thats alot of food to eat before you lift hard and would make me yak.

And I did essentialyl quit drinking, swapped over to the lowest carb beer I could find(mich ultra at the time) for when I did, which was about once a night and I wouldnt even drink a 6 pack of it.

It worked really well for me and my friends that went on the plan with me.

[KOU In3]

Originally Posted by haunter

dude, I was eating as much as I could till I was going to yak and crammed food in all day. There was nothing wrong with my nutrition either, you are jumping to ALOT of assumptions purely to fit your point of view. You can only eat so much a day, esp when trying to fit in 180 grams of protein a day, the only way I could get the protein was with the shakes.

If you were happy with that plan and it got you where you were looking to go then it was a good plan for you. But I fail to see where that means I was 'jumping to assumptions' though.

I've been there, thinking I had some crazy metabolism that kept me from putting weight on. It's what just about every 'hard gainer' thinks. Eating as much as you can until you think you're going to burst isn't the same as charting out the 3000 or 4000 cals you might need in order to start gaining.

Case in point...
Average protein shake- 300 cals and 40 grams of protein
Average PB&J on whole wheat- 500 cals
Add in a can of tuna for another ~150 cals and 33 grams of protein

I still contend that there is no magic to the protein shake. Yes, sometimes the supp is an easy way to get some extra protein and cals. But if you were at the point where you were making the gains, you could easily calculate out the protein and cals you were getting from the shake and make the whole food adjustments.

I find most people (myself included) are rarely taking in the amount of calories they think they are on a conisistent basis. Tons of 'hardgainers' can point to 5000 calorie days. But they aren't eating that every single day for 3 to 6 months. Because the bottom line is they'd be gaining weight if they really were. Heck I'm eating 3500 to 4000 cals and find it really tough to plow through that much volume with clean foods on a daily basis.

As for there being 'something wrong with your nutrition'. By definition there was. If you were trying to gain weight and weren't, then there was something wrong with your nutrition. I don't mean it as a slam.

[haunter]

well, an inability to consume more food is a problem


it snot as simple as just adding calories, esp when you are stuffing yourself full of food constantly.

I supplimented calories in my protein shakes by adding lots of simple sugars before a workout with the protein to help with energy, it also probably didnt help that I gavue up caffeine cold turkey

[Kevin]

the yohimbe makes you horny as fuck

[steve]

http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/su...ws/Yohimbe.htm